As an atheist and a secularist committed to diversity, I have formally proposed to the first meeting of this new IW Council next week that it ends the practice of offering Christian prayers at the start of its meetings.
My actions have immediately drawn mutterings that it would discriminate against Christians. Why do religious people who happily discriminate against religious minorities counter-claim discrimination when the cause of all discrimination can so easily be removed ? Helpful answers please.........
I have also formally proposed that Councillors Allowances for this Council should be ones recommended by the Independent Remuneration Panel. In 2006 that Panel made recommendations that were then largely ignored by the Council, including me - though I do not profit by allowances as they balance my loss of earnings. In the light of what is going on elsewhere I think it is important to set an early example here.
9 comments:
Here's one Christian socialist who utterly agrees with you on the prayers issue. It is utterly bizarre to claim that the removal of a privilege over other groups constitutes discrimination against Christians.
Those Christian councillors who feel the need to pray for the IW might care to consult Matthew 6:6.
That's interesting, because here's one fellow-atheist who doesn't. As all the Abrahamic religions share the same root, the discrimination argument is hard to sustain. Christianity is still an important force in this country, and you have the option not to participate in prayers. The only thing I've objected to in the past was the way in which you were pilloried for opting out, particularly given the councillor who attacked you showed a distinctly un-Christian attitude in so doing. Religion still sustains a great many people in a difficult world. I think, and you think, that we'd be better off without it. It isn't inappropriate however to have respect for the alternative point of view. You are tilting at a bit of a windmill here; there are more important things to worry about.
As for expenses, it's not so much the amount as the transparency. Leave councillors with too few resources to do their jobs and they'll be even more led up the garden path by very well-paid senior officers than they are already. All I ask is that they do their job and stop shovelling money into the pockets of consultants and chief officers (which stacks up to a damn' sight more than councillors' expenses claims).
It's still a Christian country Geoff, the tradition in affairs of state is that we pray. You can ( as you have in the past) not take part if you so wish. Why make a silly point of it?
It's people like you in the major parties who push people into supporting the bnp, by making them think you no longer want Britain to be a Christian country.
I agree with the last anonymous. If you dont agree, then feel free not to take part. This IS a Christian country despite the shouting about multi-culturism from lefty quangos etc. Sorry Geoff you are out of order on this point. However, congratulations on getting re-elected.
If you want do separate state from church argue for it at the ballot box.
I do believe a majority of what the BNP calls 'the indiginous population' of Britain (that's the 88% who are white I assume?) are happy to continue as we are despite the absence of organised religion in their lives.
The point is people are ostracised for not taking part in these "rituals" and in the interest of fairness Christian prayers would require that other religions were catered for as well, maybe an Islamic prayer before council or Jewish or Sikh or perhaps a little prayer to Thor the god of thunder will help us out of this economic crisis
I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone here I respect the right for people to believe in whatever they wish (Thor, Wotan , the flying spaghetti monster) but I feel very strongly that religion has no place in politics.
Politics requires independent freethinking people and logic, not mysticism and some skewed version of morality from thousands of years ago.
If we had any elected members of other faiths I would be happy for them to pray to their God, but only after the majority prayed to 'ours.'
We are a christian country, our council and government should ( and do) reflect that.
Me, I think all religion is tosh. That doesn't mean I can't respect people of all faiths.
Simon L ... Geoff is a wicked little stirrer, and so are you. Prayers do no harm, could conceivably do some good (although you, Geoff and I don't believe so),and "fairness" doesn't come into it. There's no obligation to represent the religious views of every church, sect and custom in the known world; and by the way, politics requires more than just icy logic: what's yours built on? It can't exist in a vacuum.
What Geoff hates is the hypocrisy of saying your prayers one minute, and then going on to behave as if you didn't really believe a word of it the next: an extremely common phenomenon. So show up the hypocrisy; leave them with their religion, because if you take that away from some of our councillors, they'll have absolutely no moral compass left. Morality from thousands of years ago might be better than none at all.
Here endeth the second lesson.
What, exactly, is a Christian country?
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